[Rejected] Make avoidance spawning apply only to child chars, and reduce number of avoidances allowed


Two separate suggestions here.

  1. Let avoidance only affect where your child characters spawn. Your adult characters have the power to walk away from someone you don’t want to play with.

  2. Reduce number of avoidances allowed to about three.

(If the first suggestion was accepted, then the second would be unnecessary).


There now seem to be many new characters who spawn in seemingly random places. They acquire zero culture, lore, or influence from their race. More often, they end up living with some other race, and become essentially that race with a different avatar.

This seems like it will have negative effects.

For one, it dilutes excitement of meeting other races. The first interactions characters have with a different race now seems to fairly often be with someone who can bring nothing unique or interesting to that meeting of cultures, aside from looking different. That looking different is quickly a disappointment when you see there is nothing more than a superficial difference.

It also likely desensitizes populations to conflict that should be generating intrigue. Several times already I have seen characters disregard threats or intrigue about another race, because they have a token [race] acquaintance that seems to be nice. That would be fine if Token was representative of their race’s culture instead of a random avoidance spawn, but these tokens are really only representative of it that player’s dislike of other players and injecting an influence (accidentally) into the game world that waters the story down.

As an example, I saw a daemon spawn at an a place clearly due to avoidances. Daemons have probably at least 10 legit spawn points at a given time. They are everywhere in numbers to generate new daemon adult spawns. That means that the player has that many avoidance sets, and the result is that people who should have had concerns with the presence of a daemon just shrugged it off and have continued shrugging of the presence of daemons.

For another, it seems to give too much influence to people who are the most likely to be players who are unwilling to get along with others, while at the same time there are already alternative solutions in place. An adult spawn has the power to walk away. Their player has the power to cull them after only 10 days, if they cannot get away in some usual travel method. Avoidance now seems drastic compared to the small amount of time a player could potentially have to deal with walking or culling. That small time frame of potential dislike for your spawn point seems quite acceptable compared to the effects of diluting racial differences in the game world overall.

The only time a player would truly benefit from avoidance is when they spawn a child character, due to how long they could potentially be stuck playing with someone they have OOC conflict with, while also having no viable options aside from adopting out the child if they do so soon enough, or killing off the child in some way.

For everyone else, it’s not a big deal. Also, avoidance is likely set when there are high emotions at play, and thus impulsive. If a player were limited to just a few players to avoid, they would be motivated to check after the 3 month avoidance minimum whether they really want to use an avoidance slot on a particular player, or whether they were just feeling heated for IC reasons rather than having an actual OOC conflict with the player they are avoiding.

I get that there are times when another player can ruin our experience and we don’t want to play with them. But it should be used sparingly enough that one of the coolest aspects of the game (different races) doesn’t become just a watered down and ineffective plot point.


I personally do not feel that the game should be deciding how much self control a player should have. If they keep avoiding a ton of players and end up spawning by themselves on new spawns, then that is the consequence. The game is not designed to mediate player emotions, it provides tools and expects the player to be responsible with them.

If we think consequences of avoidance (those mentioned above such as cultureless or differentiated spawns appearing by themselves) are more negative than beneficial (allowing players to have a spawn start away from players they generally do not like to play with), then why not just get rid of avoidance altogether?

If it exists at all, it will always have the stated “problems” (which are debateable as even being problems to begin with - there is not necessarily anything wrong with newspawns who are not attached to a race’s culture, as the overwhelming majority of them are, and my goal as a designer is not to stop culture from changing). So if we are going to call these consequences problems, we should be questioning whether it is a feature worth keeping.


I am indeed suggesting to get rid of avoidance, with the exception of being able to avoid having your child character have parents that you want to avoid.

This is not a suggestion to enforce races to embrace their culture, nor a suggestion to put barriers from them avoiding changing their culture. This is a suggestion to not let a player’s OOC dislike for other players have an affect in the game world.


Whether or not avoidance exists, player’s OOC dislike for other players will always have an effect on the game world. That will never go away, let me be very clear about that. Regardless of whether the game chooses your spawn point for you or not, you will have people leaving tiles for no IC reason, newspawn suicide, and all kinds of other side-effect issues that will simply replace the ones you see now.

I would consider removing avoidance, but only if players either feel that 1. avoidance does not fully (or to a satisfactory degree) serve its intended purpose or 2. its effect on the game world is too amplified for the feature to remain desirable (and removing it would make effects that would still exist be less prominent, which would outweigh other benefits gained from the feature).

I think either way the world is affected, but at least if avoidance exists the players have more options.


Suggestion: Town Avoidance
1) Option to avoid spawning in a specific town until your character dies (so that you can return from a trip without breaking any rules).
2) Trading with a character makes it so that you temporarily cannot be their child.
3) Spawning as the child of a character whom you recently traded with (assuming you’re still alive) gives a warning notice.

This may benefit players who travel or have friends who travel.

  1. There is no rule about being in the same town as another of your characters, one just hibernates until they separate, so there is no reason for this to be an option.
  2. Why would you want to not be the child of someone you are trading with temporarily? You won’t have child characters spawn where you already have another character, so I don’t know what this is trying to solve.
  3. Same as 2, not understanding why you want this feature.

Here is more info on how avoidance and spawning already works.


Okay I can just hibernate.

closed #8